From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (mordred) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi Subject: Re: Submissives magick Date: 29 Dec 1994 21:53:05 GMT [from alt.magick.sex: "Joseph Max.555" ] On 23 Dec 1994, Thantopsis wrote: > I am a young female intrested in what this is all about.... Since you are responding on the thread begun by "Claves" with his vapid pronouncments about "submissives" being the best "vessels" for magickal power, a few caveats are in order. Understand that, especially in light of the revelation by Mr. Claves that he is a male in his "50's", that the "old school" of sex magic suffers from an almost exclusively male domination paradigm. Women are considered to be mere "vessels" which the male magician exploits for his own use. Since females have only been able to be more open sexually in the last few decades (in the West, anyway), it comes as no surprise that the "ancient traditions" of Western Sex Magic (which Mr. Claves asserts is his source) see women as little more than mere assistants and magickal "lust generators". Until the 1950's (and Crowley was no exception), what little writings were available on sex magic gave insipid instructions such as: "Step 1: The magician should obtain a compliant female with psychic ability and enthrall her..." This translates, of course, to blatant sexual exploitation and psychological dependency - eg. it's bullshit. If you want a good place to begin learning about sex magic, I suggest the book _Secrets Of The German Sex Magicians_ by Frater U:.D:. It is published by Llewellyn Books. If walking into BDalton and ordering such a title makes you nervous, it can be obtained direct from the publisher by calling toll-free 1-800-THE-MOON. Read the book and get a handle on the subject before you go out seeking "gurus". In actual fact, there are no "occult secrets" anymore. There is nothing that _anyone_ can teach you that isn't available from various books that you can find and study yourself. Anyone who tries to tell you any different is lying.